Do I need a work permit to trade cryptocurrency in Thailand on a Thai Elite Visa?

Ivan Nah I dont come from Hodler unfortunately, but I can speak a bit of Lambo

Not a HODLer so Tim? Just pointing out that seems to be the entire point of his question. If India is like most countries if he converts to Tether he'll be realizing any gains in India.

Unless he enters a short position, taxes should be the least of his concerns, as there wont be any profit to tax

He's also concerned about the tax implications... if he does that while still tax resident in India he may have to pay tax on any profit.

Just a word of advice try to convert that to tether or enter a short position asap, the bubble pop is around the corner

It does depend on which country, you are correct. My point is, he needs to see a tax specialist in his home country before thinking about doing this. Not an accountant, but a specialist.

@Koren ********

I moved out of UK and dont pay taxes and thats just after 1 months. Depends on which country I guess.

Koren every country is not the same on this, they are all different. Many you can extinguish your obligations much quicker than that, for the UK you can be non-tax resident literally the day after you step out of the place if you establish residency somewhere else, and after six months even if you don't. You have to stay out, but if you DO stay out, you will not be considered UK tax-resident. You can do between 16-182 days in the UK while maintaining non-UK tax residence, depending on your circumstances. But at least 16. Some countries are much more restrictive on this than others. OP would need to figure out what the rules are for India but he seems to think that if he establishes tax residency somewhere else that is sufficient.

yes, but for a certain period of time. For example, for me not to pay tax in Australia, I'd have to live here and not move ANYWHERE for 3 years before I can say to the ATO, nup, not a resident of OZ, so no tax for you. Nearly every country has the same.

Avoiding tax is stupid, but wanting to decrease your tax rate is getting harder and harder. Thanks to the U.S making nearly every country sign to their standards and now all these countries can easily share information.

Yes he'd actually have to be living here, sure. But I'm presuming in this scenario with the Elite he is planning on actually moving here, so he would be resident here.

Not good enough. India is a signatory the International Reporting/Accounting Standards. He'd have to be living in Thailand for a certain period of time before he can say to his government "nope, I pay taxes in Thailand, I need not pay Indian taxes".

I've already gone through this ;)

I think he should talk to a Thai accountant or lawyer if the amounts are high enough it would actually be worth it. It may be possible to do this. I believe you CAN get a Thai tax number without a work permit- you can do this for example to register as a Thai taxpayer for interest on money you have in a Thai bank savings account, and many retirees do this (no retiree has a work permit).

@Robert ******

Be aware that you are exerting energy and knowledge like all of us here to participate in this discussion. Now fortunately I am now overseas, but do you have a work permit for this?

@Robert ******

I don't see how the labour act is not relevant to a discussion group on visa matters? If you don't want to debate on these topics, then rather stop commenting.

@Ivan ***********

The group is called Thai Visa Advice. Not labor act discussion group.

@Robert ******

the Thai law also states everyone who is tax resident needs to pay tax. This means that in the case of many residing here, these laws conflict with labour or immigration laws. You can't simply determine then what's legal or illegal.

@Ivan ***********

is only trying to discuss that.

@Rob***

what is the purpose of this group if not discussing what the law allows or does not allow? I think your interpretation of it is incorrect, and if correct the logical conclusion would be that almost every retiree here is working illegally. If you don't believe 90%+ of retirees here to be illegal, maybe there is something wrong with your interpretation of the law?

As I wrote before. I quoted the Thai law, if that law is incorrect in your eyes it does not help to discuss with me just because I have no input of changing this. I'm not the person to discuss with if the Thai law is correct of not, it is their law and we can only try to understand and live with the rules they make as a guest in their country.

Robert I am saying I don't think this is correct, I do not think investing is considered "working" under Thai law. It's generally not considered "working" in any country, it's use of capital not labour.

If it was, any retiree with an investment-based income source would be working here illegally. And that's most of them these days- only 6% of Americans for example have a defined benefit pension, defined benefit is becoming incredibly rare. And even many that do probably have investment income also- dividends, or rent from a house back home like Sander suggests.

I just don't think this a correct interpretation of Thai law, and that's what I'm trying to discuss here.

+ nobody would question where your income came from if filed correctly. There are numerous people here having rental income or receiving foreign dividends. Taxation is completely seperate from visas or labour laws

@Ivan ***********

Okay than. 1 hour ago I said they should have according the Thai law. But you keep on going. I think they should have a work permit. According to this simply written text: " Work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;" . If you work as an investor in Thailand, regardless you age you do use your knowledge to consider wage or other benefits.

Robert I didn't ask, I'm not the guy asking. Saikat J. Paul is the guy asking. I'm not trying to personally attack you here, I'm just trying to help Saikat.

I stated that according to my understanding investing or managing investments is not considered work. I don't believe having and managing investments outside Thailand is prohibited on the Elite visa. Working is of course, but working is also prohibited on a retirement visa.

If anything, I would have thought this was exactly what the Elite visa was targeted at- well heeled under 50s who can live off investments and don't need to work in Thailand.

I am trying to understand why you think a retiree managing investments without a work permit is OK but an Elite visa holder managing investments without a work permit is not OK. This is not a personal attack on you, this is an attempt to discuss the question.

@Ivan ***********

I give advice according the question. You asked do I need a work permit to continue my work. If somebody else ask what I need to get a Visa or Extension based on being over 50, i advice with the requirements. By the way how old are you, I did not ask this before, therefor I did not selective give advice based on your age. I stop commenting on this thread that only leads into personal attacks and does not contribute to give you the legal way and answer to stay in Thailand.

@Rob***

but you would not give this advice to an over-50 planning on retiring in Thailand to live off their investments, this is the point. It's selective based on the age of the person asking the question, if the person is over 50 anything they do is presumed legal, if the person is under 50 everything they do is presumed illegal. I don't see the material difference here other than the guy is under 50.

@Ivan ***********

I gave advice. If others start that opening a bank account is working I challenge that in a short discussion with examples. But I agree, the law is confusing. I hope you understand this and get some legal advice before you make your own decision. Good luck what ever you do and enjoy the time in Thailand.

In most cases when you reside more than 183 days in a country you are considered a resident for tax purposes. Depending on your remaining ties to your home country (assets etc.) you are definitely able to decide to pay tax in Thailand over the foreign income you transfer into Thailand. That's not related to a work permit and the revenue department is happy to give you a Tax ID

My issue with it is the selectivity. If someone posts a thread about retiring in Thailand, no one pops up to tell them that if they want to manage their retirement account from Thailand, "If you want to be totally legal, set up a company, make work permit and get the correct visa" and then starts on about a literal interpretation of the law where cooking your own dinner is illegal. It's not helpful.

I think Thai Elite can assist you in obtaining tax residency in Thailand.

And I am saying

@Rob***

that investing is NOT considered work in Thai law. Your bringing this stuff up and suggesting that someone managing foreign investments is doing something illegal if they don't have a work permit is just muddying the waters and scaremongering. This is not illegal.

We can argue all day of what is work or not. I quoted the official Thai explanation of how they see work. I can not change that text, I write I understand this is an old text. I understand it has to be re-written in a much more clear way. Do I work when I cook my own meal? Do I work when I do maintenance on my own house? Some say yes, some say no. I made a choice to advice people by showing them the OFFICIAL way to do things, if this is correct or not or should be different because the law is confusing, there is nothing I can do about it. Make a decision and live a happy life.

Robert a literal interpretation of that you could argue that walking to the shop or reading a book is "work".

Investing is not "work". Investing involves capital, not labour. If you are going to insist that investing is "work", any retiree here who takes any action with regard to their retirement account, or investments in general, while physically in Thailand, is "working" and breaking the law. If you open a Thai bank account and stick 800,000 THB into it, is that "work"? You even get paid interest. Catch 22!

Do you honestly think that? 99% of retirees here would be illegally working by that metric.

Ivan McAvinchey This is written in the labor act, ""Work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;" As I said earlier, officially reading this text they should have. But I understand this is an old text and written before the computer came into play, also I understand their is a very low enforcement and if you don't shout out you work here it is a small chance of getting arrested. But contact a lawyer specialized in this or the BOI to get the latest information.

@Rob***

you do not need a work permit to carry out investment activities. Especially not if these activities are outside Thailand. Do all retirees with investments outside Thailand have work permits to manage their investments?

I can only give advice on how you can stay totally legal. To follow it or do something else is your decision. Good luck.

Saikat J. Paul This is Thailand, not your country.

Just with paying taxes it does not legitimate your work at home. If you want to be totally legal, set up a company, make work permit and get the correct visa.

@Robert ***********

yes I'm aware of property tax. but I'm not buying property, I rent out a condo on a year to year contract.

It's all about "pay to play" in thailand hahaha

Plus any time you must visit Immigration headquarters to fulfill your visa requirements, you do not queue in line as do other applicants.

Saikat, IMO, the Elite visa is far easier to acquire and simply enjoy life here. Plus you are able to invest and buy whatever you like without any headaches :-)

Jay, if you buy property, you will pay taxes, trust me on this ;-)

Exactly why would you need to pay Taxes in Thailand when your not even a resident? Your not officially "working" in Thailand if all your doing is online trading. You still need to pay taxes to your home country. If you got an official job inside of Thailand with work permit then you pay taxes to both Thailand and your home country. You would just be considered a tourist, but with with the elite visa it is valid for 5 years.

Another option is an investment visa. You can legitimately pay taxes (on your investments) AND live in Thailand .

You need at least 10 million baht invested.

Saikat, it depends on what investments you make as to what taxes you will be paying.

Basically, on a Thai Elite Visa you would be in Thailand legitimately, working remotely from wherever you currently live/are from, paying taxes there as 'self employed' (or whatever your tax arrangement is) and the Thai authorities wouldn't know/need to know/ have any way of finding out that you are 'working' in Thailand. Make sense? (Not entirely legit, but no one is going to come to your door asking for tax receipts and employment contracts)

On the elite card/visa you would be living legitimately in thailand you just wouldn't be legally able to work here.

I too am very jealous of these guys